How easy is your radio to use in your car?

I enjoyed chatting with ABC Radio Canberra today about the future of radio, and the CRA’s call for legislation to ensure access to radio.

You can listen to the whole thing here.

Transcript

Well, speaking of futures, should ensuring radio has a future be a priority for the government, for lawmakers. Do you think the modern world would be okay without live radio? I hate to ask on 0467 922 666.

Now, if you’re listening in the car right now, how easy was it to tune in to 666? Did you use the app. Did you go analogue. Was there a button that you could just press for AM. Because commercial radio and audio, also known as CRA, is actually urging the federal government to legislate protections that make sure Australian radio stays easily accessible on connected car dashboards and also smart speaker platforms.

Because, as you may know, new EVs and cars are being manufactured without those kind of familiar knobs and dials, the familiar AM-FM radio buttons replaced instead by, well, complex digital displays, let’s say.

James Cridland is a radio futurologist. James, good afternoon to you.

Good afternoon, Alice.

Please first talk me through your job.

So I work with radio companies across the world, helping them understand what the future is.

And I will get to that at the end because I’m not sure I’m prepared for the answer just yet.

But why should protecting radio be a priority, a government priority.

Well, I mean, what’s going on here is that CRA is essentially a little bit nervous that radio in cars is getting harder to find. So if you’ve been in a new car recently, particularly a new electric car, then all of the usual knobs and buttons have gone away and there’s essentially a big touchscreen in your car. Sometimes radio is really easy to find in there. Sometimes radio is rather a lot harder.

And so one of the things that CRA is asking for, and the ABC also, by the way, agreeing with them, is that it needs to be really obvious and really clear how to turn on the radio in your car and how to find the radio in there. And that’s an important thing.

And I think, you know, certainly when you look at, you know, Australians using radio in cars, well, 84 percent of Australians are using radio in a car in the past month. You know, we all know how important radio is and we don’t want it to go away.

So when it comes to threats to the future of radio, how much is difficulty accessing it in a car threat among all of the other things.

Well, radio is actually really important in terms of cars. It’s a very important place where people listen to the radio. Actually, listening at home is the number one, but listening in a car is the number two place. And for many people, listening in a car is the main place where they listen. So it’s important that we make sure that radio is as accessible in a car as possible.

Now, I guess the question is, how do you tune in. And, you know, and the details of what CRA is asking for, because they’re asking for laws to be passed, which is always an entertaining thing. What we do know is that, for example, in Europe, DAB Plus, which is in Canberra, it’s a great way of tuning in to 666 ABC Radio Canberra.

DAB Plus is mandatory in cars so that you can make sure that you’ve got all of the choice that you do on the radio dial. So that’s an important thing. But it’s also important, of course, to make sure that those radios, not just you can find them easily in your car, but you can use them easily as well.

And I’ve just bought a brand new electric car. It has no AM in there.

At all?

At all. No AM in there at all. And that’s not particularly unusual for an electric car. But also the radio in there is not that easy to use. And so there’s quite a lot of work going on, you know, in Europe and in other parts of the world, making sure that the radio, however that radio works, is really easy to use. And works the way that you would expect a radio to work rather than anything else. So, yeah, but the loss of AM in cars is clearly a concern to the national emergency broadcaster, the ABC.

Well, yeah, this is exactly what I was going to say. What then does it mean, James, for emergency broadcasting if you don’t have access to AM.

Well, in most cases, you do have access to DAB, and DAB is not talked about as an awful lot on the radio for reasons that I don’t fully understand. But it’s a great way of – it’s just a normal radio with an antenna and everything else. But it gets ABC Radio Canberra and all of the other ABC radio services in crystal clear FM quality, if you like, and also makes it much easier to find additional stations in there. It’s just a free radio like anything else. It’s a great way of tuning into all that the ABC has to offer.

I’m loving this cross plug, by the way, James.

Thank you!

There you go.

You know, so DAB is in the majority of cars now on the road in Australia. It’s in pretty well all of them if you buy a brand new car and is in, you know, pretty well all of them. So – and, in fact, if you look at the amount of radio consumed here in Australia, 40% is not consumed on either FM or AM. It’s either on DAB or it’s online. DAB, by the way, more popular than the apps. So, you know, so I don’t think it’s a real concern.

One of the things I personally feel is that ABC local radio should be on FM in the capital cities because I think that’s an important thing as well. But, you know, that’s kind of a side note to making sure that it’s important to find a radio in the first place and making sure that car manufacturers continue putting radio in there.

What is it that AM did to not get – to, I guess, have the access reduced to it. What’s the difference between AM and FM. Why does FM still – is able to be heard in a car and AM not in some. I don’t understand that at all.

Yeah, there are some technical reasons, particularly if you’ve got large electric motors in your car, then, you know, obviously you get quite a lot of interference.

You’ll know, you know, driving under the tram tracks that it gets noisy with the electrical interference. And that gets much worse, you know, if you’re driving around an electric car. So that’s one reason.

But the other reason, and I hate to say this, is that AM is dying. AM is going away. AM has been turned off in most European countries. Germany, I know, Germany, France, the UK, it’s being turned off right now. Places like Norway and – I mean, places like Norway, they’ve even turned off FM. So, you know, so AM really is going away.

It is very difficult if you go into your local electrical retailer. It’s very hard to find a modern AM radio. You can still buy some, of course, but it’s getting harder and harder. Hence why, you know, I mean, you know, I’m talking to you from the sunny state of Queensland. And, of course, we had Cyclone Alfred not so long ago. And it was really important to be able to listen to my local ABC station. And so important, they put it onto FM for a while.

Yeah, okay. So that is relatively straightforward to do then, switching, for example, local radio here in ABC 666. If need be, in an emergency, we could go to air on FM.

Yeah, I mean, if need be. But that’s up to – in this particular case, it was up to the fine people at ABC Classic and asking them. would you mind if we broadcast on your Facebook instead.

Yeah. Right, okay.

And so that will be a conversation.

But, you know, the important thing is, particularly for ABC local radio is making sure that the people that pay for it get great value out of it. And that means that being able to tune in is a really important thing. And this is what part of this work from the CRA is about. It’s making sure that broadcast radio continues in a car.

And this CRA work is also talking about smart speakers. I don’t know if you’ve ever tried listening to the radio through a smart speaker. Sometimes it works fantastically well. Sometimes it’s really hard. And so, you know, another part of this work is asking the government to actually mandate in law that if it’s a licensed radio station, it should be really easy to get on a smart speaker. And these laws have already been passed in countries like the UK and other parts of Europe. So this isn’t a new idea, but it would certainly help Australian radio broadcasters here.

This is 666 ABC Radio Canberra coming to you on either the app or 666 on AM. It depends where you’re listening from. Your guest…

Or, of course, on DAB!

Or on DAB. The main event that we’ve just been discussing!

You’re hearing from James Cridland, a radio futurologist. And on 0467 922 666, hi, Alice. I’m at the supermarket listening to you via my phone and hearing aids. Definitely 666 in the car, says Andrew from Hawker. Thank you. Love to hear it, Andrew. Rest assured that when setting up my new EV, says another listener, radio stations. when setting up my new EV radio stations, the stations were clearly listed in alphabetical order. So ABC was very easy to add to my favourites. Yes, this is one advantage of being at the ABC, I guess. Hello to you, Rodney on the text line, who says, hi, Alice. DAB has very limited range. ABC only goes as far as Bungendore. Not much good if you live in Braidwood. Good point, Rodney. And another listener is asking, James, what is the transmission range and rural coverage of DAB in Australia?

Not good enough is the quick answer. It needs to cover it needs to cover more. I think, you know, from my point of view, I look at DAB as being something for the cities. And I think FM is still very capable for much of the rest of Australia. But there is a real issue that, you know, obviously, DAB, you know, obviously, from a point of view of making it easy to tune in, AM radio goes hundreds of miles. And it is a bit of a concern if AM radio is taken out of cars, which is, you know, one of the things, you know, it would be lovely if everybody makes sure that they have an AM radio at home, if you can find one, you know, and make sure that you’ve got batteries just in case.

But doesn’t it make sense, James, if you said so yourself, AM is dying. So I guess it makes sense for cars to not put a dying technology in a car.

Well, I think what the CRA is asking for here is making sure that it’s easy to find radio, first and foremost, that there is radio reception. DAB Plus will cover all of the all of the metro in Canberra. It obviously doesn’t cover, you know, once you’re driving out of there. And that’s something that in time would be great if there was a bit more of that.

But I think, you know, certainly making it easy to find is one thing, but also making it easy to work is another thing. You know, the new the new EV that I have, it’s it’s, you know, you know, it’s got a great radio in there. But my goodness, you need to work hard to actually work out how to figure it out.

Absolutely.

You know, yes, it’s not it’s not that easy.

James, you’re a radio futurologist. I do feel slightly nervous asking this question. But what is the future of radio.

Well, have you considered retraining, Alice?

Yeah, I have.

No, I’m joking. I’m joking.

The future of the future of radio is super good.

Is it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, human connection and shared experience will always be what we need from from the media. And radio is such a wonderful place for that. The way that we get radio will clearly change. You know, clearly you can see that AM doesn’t have a long term future. FM has a much more secure future. But also, of course, you’ve got things like podcasts, on demand audio such as that. You’ve got the ABC Listen app. You’ve got other apps are also available as well. You know, so you’ve got lots of different ways of tuning in to the radio. But radio itself is still seeing record audience numbers.

Wow.

It’s still it’s still doing very, very well. We’re spending less time with the radio, absolutely. Because we have so much other things to to consume. But in terms of people tuning into the radio, we’re seeing we’re still seeing, you know, tremendous figures out of that.

Can I make a distinction, James, there between the podcasts and Listen app and live local radio like we’re doing now. Because I feel like they’re very different things with the podcast. It’s pre-recorded. It’s on there. But this what we’re doing now, it’s so immediate. And I’m hoping that this format, live local radio, still has a promising future as well.

Oh, certainly it does. And I think it’s interesting when you look at apps like the ABC Listen app, you can see that the majority of time spent in that app is listening to live radio. It’s not listening to all of the other things in there. You can get audio books in there. You can get all kinds of other things in there. So it’s all to do with live radio. And that’s why those apps are really, really important.

When I launched, I actually launched the first radio app in the world, which was very exciting back in 2005. And, you know, and it was fascinating to see how many people were using that as their primary way of listening to the radio. And you’ve just heard, you know, somebody who’s who’s managed to Bluetooth their mobile phone to their hearing aids, which is a great way of quietly, of quietly tuning in while you’re while you’re doing other things. You know, it’s a great opportunity. So I think, you know, the future of radio is fantastic and is, you know, and has a long, long future for live radio talking about real relevant things for audiences, whether that’s local, whether that’s a community of common interest, all of that, all of that stuff.

The future of AM radio is a different conversation. But I think if you’re making content, if you’re, you know, if you’re if you’re on the air, I think you’ve got a fantastic future.

On the text line, great topic listening to the ABC radio app won’t be any good when I can’t get mobile reception during a bushfire or charge my phone. AM is vital for emergency broadcast.

Yes.

And I’ve bought myself one of those crank analog solar radios just for that exact scenario. I wonder if you might do the same as well. Analogue of Farrah says, re radio waves, spelt a nice pun there. I listen on the big old slash new telly and it’s the best sound, including a mute button. I thought that all the stations there were just a mirror of those on DAB plus, but maybe not, as Art Sound FM isn’t. Does James know, asks Analogue of Farrah.

Well, yeah, I mean, there are a ton more stations on a DAB radio. Yeah, absolutely. So if you’ve got a TV, you’ll find you’ll find the ABC stations on there. This is on Channel 25. You’ll find ABC Radio Canberra. But there’s also a load of other stations. Art Sound is on DAB in the Canberra area, as well as, you know, as well as radio stations for kids, as well as country radio stations.

Well, on the country ones, James, I’ve heard of this app called, I think it’s called Radio Garden, and you can actually just click on any country in the world and tune in to their local station and listen in on what they’re hearing.

I’m assuming you’ve heard of this as well.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that’s a great app. And being able to tune in and find out, you know, and find great radio stations from across the world is a fantastic thing. So, yeah, I mean, you know, there’s a whole bunch of choice out there once you get to internet radio.

I think the benefit of DAB is that, you know, it’s just like a normal radio. You don’t have to pay. You don’t have to pay extra. It doesn’t use any of your data or anything else. But it just gives you a lot of choice. And, you know, as one of the people on your text line said, it gives you all of the stations available in alphabetical order. So it couldn’t be easier. And ABC Canberra right at the top of the list.

So when AM disappears, James, what do you think happens to little old 666. Do we just switch to FM, stay digital. What do you reckon?

Yeah, well, so what’s going on, for example, in Norway is that they turned off AM a long, long time ago. They turned off FM, I think, 10 years ago now. And all of their radio stations are on DAB. And that seems to be working very nicely for them. And similarly, exactly that’s going on in Switzerland right now. So, you know, again, not much AM. And, you know, and they’re turning off the FM dial. So I’m sure that things will change as we move forward. But the important thing is that live local radio won’t go away.

That is such a relief to hear. And, James, what a pleasure it’s been speaking with you. Thank you so much for coming on the program.

It’s been great, Alice. Thank you for asking.

Cheers, take care.

James Cridland there, a radio futurologist, assuring you that, yes, there is a future for radio. That’s whether or not AM radio has, well, actually, no, AM radio doesn’t necessarily have much of a future. But thanks to Andrew from Hawker who gave us a buzz to say that this is fascinating and that AM has (fades)